Part 2 - Hugh Ross & Jason Lisle: The "Thousands or Billions" Debate
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Hugh Ross is the founder and president of Reasons to Believe (reasons.org), and is both an astrophysicist (Ph.D., University of Vancouver) and a pastor, the author of over a dozen books, including his latest, Why The Universe Is The Way It Is. Here is the discussion of the other debate he refers to and the assessment of it by other astronomers. http://www.reasons.org/astronomers-age-of-universe http://www.reasons.org/files/astronomers-statement.pdf Jason Lisle is with Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis (answersingenesis.org), and he's the designer of their Creation Museum in Cincinnati, his Ph.D. in astrophysics is from the University of Colorado, and his latest book is The Ultimate Proof of Creation: Resolving The Origins Debate.
Comments
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I really am tired of these debates. God said 6 days then it was 6 days. Either the bible is accurate or it is not. Which side you take is not my concern. I trust God and thus the earth is a young earth. You have zero evidence to prove otherwise and you will never have the evidence. I trust God, not you or some scientist that must fill his agenda,
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It is interesting how the moderator debates Jason, but not Hugh. Can you say bias?
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The Seventh-day Adventist church was never connected with the Catholic Church from the beginning, so cannot rightly be said to have "broken away" from it. The Roman Catholic Church has murdered more true Christians than any other organization in history, and will be responsible in the future for many more. But we can read in Revelation what will be the end of the beast.
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The moderator interrupts too much. Shut up! Let them debate. Good grief!
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All of the Church Fathers believed the earth was less than 6,000 years old at the time they wrote. Read "Genesis, Creation And Early Man," by Father Seraphim Rose.
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Yes, i pray for peace too. God is calling his children out of the Catholic Church and all the other fallen churches of Babylon too, to keep all his commandments, and have the faith of Jesus. Both are necessary to receive eternal life.
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Your reticence to commit yourself to any actual historical sources or authorities in the field makes me think you don't have many "facts" to offer -- just your own claims. Peace!
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mwidunn can continue to ignore history if he wishes. That is his personal choice. Of course that doesn't change the facts of history - that the Roman Catholic Church has killed more of Christ's followers than any other organization (yes, even more than Muslims) in all of history.
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"All history books that correctly describe"...in other words, all those which differ from your claim-far more than, I think, you're willing to admit-must be incorrect. 500-1600 AD? That's an odd spread of time. Why was the Church not massacreing in the 400s or 1700s? Only "Christ's followers"? What, Moslems don't count? (Hmm, I'm starting to sense a devotee of Lorraine Boettner here.) "Historical fact"? Haven't heard any from you so far.
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All history books that correctly describe what happened between around 500AD and 1600AD will give you the required information. The Roman Catholic Church, while claiming to be the representative of Christ on earth, has murdered more of Christ's followers than any other organization by far. Please notice that does not mean it is doing so now. But that is a historical fact.
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O.K., so...What other "organizations" are you comparing it to? What are your numbers? What are your sources?
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I don't believe in conspiracy theories. I do believe in history. It is a historical fact that the Roman Catholic Church has killed more Christians than any other single organization in history.
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I've already "abused" myself by reading your "historical research" above. Next, you'll be saying the Vatican assassinated JFK.
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A bit of historical research my mwidunn would disabuse himself of false notions of history.
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"Catholics tried to rid the world of Bibles" ... by having thousands of monks copy biblical manuscripts in their monasteries everyday for centuries, over and over and over again. Yeah,... that makes sense.
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Catholics tried to rid the world of Bibles, which is historical fact. ultim4t32 should research into the churches in Asia. They are the ones who preserved the uncorrupted Bible, and the uncorrupted traditions received from the Apostles. Of course Jesus was without sin. When reading the Bible with the understanding of the Holy Spirit, you will find that Jesus never did work on the Sabbath.
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It's a known fact the catholics altered the bible, thats where Mormonism, and Jahova whitnesses and so forth came about. But you never knew there were others who also translated...? They say modern day translations even fit word for word for what the dead sea scrolls are translated as, and we have many copys going down through history with the same translations unaltered. Even if the authors are unknown which all are not that does not change anything said in the bible.
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what I find funny is how you attempt to understand the fullness of the bible without getting the foundation of it.
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actually mass muslims are turning to christianity more than they have ever before and it has been talked about frequently in middle eastern television like aljazeera as a hot topic. Also in recent years a Christian broadcasting television has been aloud in some of those muslim dominate countries. I take it your talking about Islam in the USA growing rapidly...? Also funny how you say religion is regional and how the birthplace of Jesus is mostly non-christian. Seems to break the mold in evry way
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So the bible is wrong?
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