Kalam Cosmological Argument (1/2)
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Science & Reason on Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/ScienceReason Kalam Cosmological Argument (1/2) - The Atheist Experience #604 with Russell Glasser and Martin Wagner. --- Please subscribe to Science & Reason: • http://www.youtube.com/Best0fScience • http://www.youtube.com/ScienceMagazine • http://www.youtube.com/ScienceTV • http://www.youtube.com/FFreeThinker --- What is The Atheist Experience? The Atheist Experience is a weekly cable access television show in Austin, Texas geared at an atheist and non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin (ACA), a nonprofit educational corporation to develop and support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing and friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of state-church separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists and to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals. • http://www.Atheist-Experience.com • http://www.Atheist-Community.org • http://www.NonProphetsRadio.com Watch The Atheist Experience live (Sundays): • http://tinyurl.com/AtheistExperienceLive Support the ACA (donations/membership): • http://www.Atheist-Community.org/join/ • http://www.Atheist-Community.org/donate/ • Blog: http://www.AtheistExperience.blogspot.com • Wiki: http://www.IronChariots.org • Cartoons: http://Atheist-Community.org/atheisteve/ • E-mail: tv@atheist-community.org .
Comments
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Argument doesn’t state everything has a cause, but everything which begins existing does, necessary beings such as abstract objects and God do not fall under that category. It’s a straw-man.
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Wow ?
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The kalam argument is an attempt to "prove" the impossible in the total absence of physical, verifiable evidence. If actual proof existed they wouldn't have to resort to cleverly deceptive mind games.
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Christian apologist in their little lab coats are so funny.....if cosmology or physics or any other scientific field was finding that 'gods' are the cause of anything, then the majority of the scientific community of biologists and physicists and cosmologists would hold theistic beliefs, but the opposite is true less than 1% of scientists today are theists.
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Let's be realistic, any explosion causes damage, eg If u leave a bomb anywhere on this planet, it will explode and just cause damage, so HOW can a big explosion like the Big Bang lead to a perfect universe with well shaped planets stars galaxies, etc and then life!!! There must be a creator, and the only ONE god and Muhammad is his messenger
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Rather than admitting we don't know, it makes much more sense to simply assert that a transcendent, timeless, spaceless, non physical, omniscient, omnipotent, intelligent, personal, christian bible god did it. Perfectly reasonable.
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About "time" in relationship to the possibility of creation. Let's simplify our understanding of this concept. Time is only possible where there is change (relational time). Existence, in and of itself, or the universe, in and of itself, is not susceptible to change as existence or the universe can only 'be' or 'not be'. (existential "form" can and constantly does change. Existence itself, however, does not change because it cannot change) This, among other reasons, is why existence or the universe is timeless, infinite and/or eternal. In addition, were the universe NOT to be eternal it would have had to 'emerge' and the only way existence could have emerged is by having it do so from that which is was not: That is: Non-existence. That eventuality, however, would clearly be self-contradictory and, therefore, impossible. After all, from nothing, only nothing is possible, Lynne
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I think that it may be even simpler than that.
1) Existence (The universe) can not be causal as the only option for existence to have been caused is that it emerge from non-existence. The supposition that existence emerge from non-existence is, however, is a self-contradictory supposition and, therefore, impossible. Conclusion: The universe is eternal i.e., timeless.
One should keep in mind, therefore, that any argument which attempts to apply the concept of 'time' as a postulate for determining the origin of existence itself is an argument which is self-evidently fallacious or, if one wishes, simply wrong. Lynne Atwater -
That isn't advancing, it is just cherry picking to design your god and religion to suit what you want it to mean.
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What evidence do you have of god? You say there's a great volume of it but it's the quality that matters. If (a) god were to reveal itself to me in a big way I would most likely start to believe in him/her. Even if what I most likely saw was a hallucination. I haven't even seen dreams of gods. But maybe I just don't have a (sub)conscious desire to believe in any. Of course seeing god would give me a reason but I'd need to prove it to others.
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You honestly think that? No matter how much evidence, that will never be enough. Some Atheists have gone as far as to say that even if God himself appeared to them, they would still not believe it because there would be no way to prove in the future that that actually happened...
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No Theologian argues that the first cause is NECESSARILY the Christian God. they argue that the first cause MUST be God. God is defined by the most perfect being. If Theologians have misunderstood Him, then they are open for reinterpretation and adjusting. That is the point of Theology advancing.
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You're not deluded. You're just completely full of shit.
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WLC undermines his own position because his logic is all just a base set of assumed premises. Basic conditional logic, and if x is true then y, or if x is true then if y is true finally z must follow. The problem with all that is it can't be refuted rationally. I can make similar cases with santa claus. And how exactly is logic and atheism like oil and water? Do you have an example?
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Atheists don't believe in a god but are open to the possibility if enough valid evidence is provided. To me that sounds logical. A lot more logical than believing in talking snakes.
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As I said you're good to laugh at . . . a class A joker. I thought about even answering your comment using logical implications here, but to be sure I feel no further need to bury you mercilessly under the weight of Logic any longer. As I rightly stated, atheism and logic are like oil and water. But seriously u show audition for a role as a clown. You got my vote :-)
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Btw, seeing as how I am so dumb, I find it interesting how you are now witness to not one but two atheist commentors who attempted to level a logical attack against what I wrote and BOTH left quietly, recognizing that I was privy to there logical misses in an attempt to make themselves appear like hey held to their positions for good reason. Yet did they change their positions afterword? No. This is b/c DESPITE the facade, these & really most atheists are such at the core 4 faith-based reasons.
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Lol. Your good to laugh at and nothing more. My generalizations of atheist debators as being only ostentatiously logical but ALWAYS proud-hearted mockers can be exemplifies in you. Since you've shown yourself to be petty and truthfully not too bright all throughout our conversations, I'm interestes to know: if I really am dumb, only God knows what you ought to be called.
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Also, Craig explicitly dissociates what lie you just purported. He never confuses an abstraction which has no creative/actual power with any thing else. Nice try (ie. lie.). Quit preaching to the ignorant with the hope that I am ignorant like you.
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All of ur parts (which I read) r more atheist graspings at straw.All talk of equivocation is LOGICALLY pointless b/c it LOGICALLY doesnt need to be KNOWN in what way exactly a cause of the universe relates to the physical universe. All that LOGICALLY MATTERS is the overarching logical truth that says, if the universe began to exist and is to be considered the beginnings of time (so to speak) then the LOGIC that says that it began w/ all its contingencies DEMANDS that it has a cause of some kind.
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